GREYS

Chocolate Grey Part 1 by Rex DeRusseau

The first part of this information came directly from Rex DeRusseau, of Kansas, a breeder for Dave Ward. Ward told DeRusseau that his Chocolate Grays were an infusion of four different strains of the old Gray bloodlines; the Madigin (Regular) Gray, The C.C. Cooke’s Perfection Gray, the Deans Gray and the Four Webber Gray, from Bobby Manziel Sr. Manziel and Cooke were partners at this time.

As far as we know, only S.B. Clay, Rex DeRusseau, and Sam Bingham had these Chocolate fowl. They come both straight and pea-combed. They will come with pearl, yellow, green or dark slate colored legs. They have a superb style of fighting, and fight as well pure as they do crossed. They are smart, aggressive, and game to the end.

Chocolate Grey (HOLCOMB STRAIN) Part 2 by Frank Holcomb

We took the above mentioned strain, purchased from Robert Logan, of Mississippi, we then took an Asil hen from Vasco Sibert, of Florida, and bred her under a Chocolate cock (from Logan), called “Number 18”, alwats carrying the same punch – right-out and left-out, and still do until this day.

We then bred this cross to a Lundy Roundhead, from Jimmie Johnson, of Americus, Georgia. We then bred this down until all fowl carried 1/8 Asil and 1/8 Lundy Roundhead. By having from 4 to 6 breeder pens we were able to keep this percentage in all of our Chocolate Gray fowl. We have experimented with other degrees of blood percentages, but found with out a doubt this is the best that we have come upon.

As to my way of thinking, the Chocolate in this confusing blood mixture is the very best that I have ever run upon. It is easily kept in this percentage, but also would be just as easy to unbalance it by putting new blood into them, or by crossing and double crossing.

Chocolate Grey Part 3 by Jim Gooch

As you probably know, I have been advertising 4 Webber Grays for a long time, since 1949. Through friendship, I secured the last of the Manziel 4 Webber Grays the late S.B. Clay had. Clay wanted me to get back into the game chicken business, and told me to look over his place and pick out anything I wanted for brood stock. I saw a well built Gray cock, about 6 years old, that Clay had in a stall, that had bad feet. I told Clay I liked his looks and he was too old to fight, how about that one? Clay gave me a big smile and said, “Jim, do you know what cock that is?” I told him I did not. Then he told me he was the old 4 Webber Gray cock from Manziel, and that this cock had been fought in 5 large tournaments and derbies. This cock was marked all 4 webbs out. Whether Madigin marked them that way, I do not know. I was under the impression that was Manziel’s mark, but Grady Hamilton says it was Madigin’s. Regardless of who marked them, mine were marked that way.

I told Clay I had better get something else as I didn’t want ot get one of his best brood cocks, but he said he wanted me to have the best and to take him, which I did. This was about 1949. He also secured three C.C. Cooke Perfection hens for me to mate with this cock, and I raised quite a few, and gave most of them to Clay, in appreciation for what he had done for me. I bred this 4 Webber cock for three seasons and when the cock became sterile, due to age, I took him to Clay, and Clay told me to destroy the cock, which I could not do, and left him with Clay, and he destroyed the cock.

The year Clay passed away, I gave him 6 Gray stags out of the old 4 Webber cock and he shipped them to the islands. The same year I gave him 4 pullets that he wanted to mate with one of his cocks to ship to LA in exchange for 5 Shake cocks. I asked Clay why the name “4 Webber”, and he told me because they were marked all 4 webbs out.

Mr. Hamilton said there were 3 hens, two went to Henry Wortham and one to Bobby Manziel, Sr. I do know that Bobby Manziel, Sr. had gray fowl that were marked all 4 webbs out, (4 Webbers, as they were called.)

Manziel was associated with C.C. Cooke and they had the fowl from Law, which fowl came from Madigin. I do not know when Manziel became associated with Cooke, but they did fight lots of derbies here at Waco, and Manziel fought lots of Grays when they were fighting as Manziel and Cooke, and anyone that attended these meets knew what records Manziel and Cooke made with their fowl. Both Law and Madigin got gray fowl from Hanky Deans, so evidently they were of the same breeding. It is a fact that Law shipped Gray fowl that were red in color, so after Law got these Grays, no one but Law would know how they were bred.

Bobby Manziel, Sr. was a good friend of Law’s, and am sure they exchanged fowl. Law let Manziel have a red cock, called “Repeater”, to breed over his 4 Webber Gray hens, and lots of white fowl showed up. What this “Repeater” red cock was, I do not know, but probably a Clipper.

As to the $1,000 hen, or Chocolate Hen, it is my understanding this hen went to Dave Ward, in Kansas. She was a gray hen with chocolate colored body, with lots of chocolate color feathers, hence the name Chocolate. The information I have from Kansas, this

Chocolate hen was a Madigin Regular Gray.

Shelly Clay told me that C.C. Cooke gave the grays he had their name, Perfection Grays, and in bloodlines they were the exact breeding of the Regular Grays. Cooke had a cock that he said was what you would call “Perfection” Gray.

I still have some of the 4 Webber Gray blood, and the gray cock that appeared in Grit & Steel some time back, the one that moulted out white is a pure 4 Webber Gray, and he is still on my brood yard, and is out of the old original 4 Webber fowl from Clay.

I had a very lengthy letter from a Red Robertson (or Roberson) that worked for Bobby Manziel at the time he had these 4 Webber Grays. He said the late E.W. Law let Manziel have new blood to use with his 4 Webber Grays, and that Law let Manziel have a red cock to breed over his 4 Webber Grays, and when mated, they produced lots of white stags, and Manziel did not like the white coloring, and gave them to Clay. When in partnership with Cooke, fighting at Dripping Spring Pit in Waco (Clay’s pit during the 1940’s) I did not see any white fowl fought by Manziel. Law didn’t know Manziel gave the fowl to Clay, as he did not like to see them go into other hands. Clay tried the white stags and they were excellent fighters, and this changed Manziel’s mind about not wanting them.

I do not know how Clay got his 4 Webber blood from Manziel, whether he bought fowl or Manziel gave them to him, Clay told me they were the best he had on his yard.

After Clay passed away, I gave Mrs. Clay two of the 4 Webber Gray stags to mate with some highly inbred gray hens she had. The stags from this mating were bought by Mr. Galbreath when he was in Colorado, as I helped Mrs. Clay dispose of her chickens. Galbreath bought both red and grays and when he moved to Orgeon, he got in touch with me and wanted some of the 4 Webber blood. Galbreath won a six cock derby with 6 full brothers of these grays, winning six straight without a loss. He entered another derby and used two of his 3 Spur Grays, and won six straight again. One of Galbreath’s stags was returned to me for a brood purpose, and I have him in a brood pen at this time. Galbreath wrote me he won 10 fights with 8 stags without a loss.

There is no question about it – anyone having this 4 Webber Gray blood, has just about as good, if not better than any fowl.

I have corresponded with Rex DeRusseau, of Kansas, a breeder of Dave Ward fowl, and part of this information came from him, and as he was on the ground, he got the information first hand from those that bred this $1,000 hen, and fought stags from her. He told me the $1,000 hen was in Kansas, and he talked to the man that ran the pit at Beloit, where Dave Ward, a noted cocker in Kansas fought fowl from this Chocolate or $1,000 hen, and Mr. Ward said the Chocolate name given the hen was account, as stated, her feathering. This letter from Rex DeRusseau was dated March 2, 1959, and he had bought Choclate blood from Bob Basham. As to where Mr. Basham got his blood, I do not know.

When I bred the 4 Webbers straight, I did not get anything but gray fowl. I got a stag from Clay, a J.D. Perry Gray, and used him over the gray I had, and that is when I began to get fowl that were red in color. This Perry Gray blood was a perfect blend with my 4 Webber Grays. Don’t anyone write and ask me what are the J.D. Perry Grays, as I do not have this information, and I doubt if Clay knew.

About 1957 I bought two white hens from Bob Basham, went to his place and picked them up. He told me they were Deans Grays, and some come white. These two hens were a little too old to breed, and I only raised one stag to maturity. These hens were mated to a pure 4 Webber Manziel Gray, and this stag came light red, with lots of white in feathering, and looked more like a Whitehackle. A party from St. Louis visited me when I had this stag, and I told him the full history, and that I had this one stag, and as I did not like his color, gave this stag to him, and he was shipped to St. Louis. The white hens did not moult out completely the next season, and were very short feathered, and they would not lay any eggs; so I have them to a Waco friend of mine and told him to take them to the country and turn them loose and they might freshen up and start laying. The last I heard of these two hens, they died and none was raised from them.

If Grady Hamilton is correct about the three hens, Bobby Manziel, Sr. gave or sold the hen to Dave Ward, as that is where the $1,000 hen went to.

The 17 years I have been breeding these 4 Webber Grays, I got one white hen, but the following year after moulting, she turned gray, and is still gray. My old white 4 Webber gray cock is moulting out this year with lots of dark feathers in his breast, and red on his back. He is not solid white at this time.

My pure 4 Webber Grays did not throw any white fowl, but if crossed on the pure Madigin Claret, you would get some white ones. I made this cross of 4 Webber on pure Sam Bingham Red fwol that came out of the Old Cedar cock of Clay’s and this mating produced white dowl, but I discontinued this cross and bred them straight.

What information I have, I got from the late S.B. C.ay, Rex DeRusseau and the late Sam Bingham, and I believe what they say about these Grays. Sam Bingham told me that Madigin had lots of Gray fowl with dark legs, and they came pearl legged, yellow legged and dark legged. Sam ought to know, as he walked hundreds of cocks for Madigin, and had access to his best.

So, summing it all up, the Madigin Regular Gray, Cooke Perfection Gray (bred by C.C. Cooke) and the Deans Grays are close kinfolks, if not exact bloodlines.

English Grey

by Cocking Cousins (1992)

In Britain, there are three well known strains of English Greys. Namely Felix Leach Greys, Colonel Greys, and Hawes Greys. Their may be others but these are the most well known and widespread.

Felix Leach, a racehorse trainer of Newmarket in Southern England, is perhaps the most famous breeder of Grey fowl over here. He took great pride in these fowl during the early and middle part of this century. They were and still are a good fighting bird and are used a lot in English pits. They are around 4 1/2 pounds and are low to medium station, aggressive pressure fighting type fowl, allowing their opponent no room or rest, fighting mainly low to the ground and looking to keep on top their opponent. They need to be dead to be beaten. My knowledge of Colonel Greys is slightly better, having used this strain of Greys myself for a few years. They come slightly bigger than Leach Greys being about 4.10 to 5.4, they are long in body and narrower than most English strains, looking more American in appearance. When right they are very fast, heads high, legs in front type fighters, they are also very aggressive. When “oure” they are prone to man fight, but cross very well for battle. They are light boned birds appearing big for their weight. They perform much better when fought in lean flesh and mature early.

Hawe’s Greys are not so widespread in England. They are very much like the Leach Grey, both in size and fighting style, in fact Felix Leach and Hawes were friends and its likely the strains are of very similar blood.

At a recent sale of gamefowl by Sir Mark Prescot in Newmarket, both Hawes and Leach broodstock along with American strains were sold in good numbers. They also made a high price by English standards. It was quite an event for English gamefowl lovers, being the only public sale of gamefowl in England this century.

I’ve also seen a lot of Black Grey Hennies fought over the years, though the origin of these birds is unknown to me at present, they have been game and always deadly cutters.

Well, thank you for listening, as you can gather we are not done yet on the gamefowl front. I even know of old strains of Creel and Black Toppy that are game and deadly but we will leave it for now.

Ginn Greys

The Ginn Greys were bred and fought by Col. S.A. Ginn, of Georgia, and their blood lines are unknown. Ginn and more used these Greys in some of the biggest and best mains ever fought in the south, and they made a wonderful pit record. They are still extensively bred throughout the country. The males come a light silver grey to a solid white, with hens the same color. Both have straight and peacomb, and some show a small tassel. Red fiery eyes and both yellow and white legs. Run in weight 5:00 to shakes.

Regular Grey

Regular Grey is said to be a combination of three grey families: the Law Grey, the Sweater Gray and the Plain head Muff Grey. Regular Grays come green legged, sometimes with yellow, silver duck wings and straight comb. They are medium to low-stationed, and are known for power and gameness. Breeders note that they are as powerful and dead game as the Blue faces. Because of these, many breeders have made Regular Grey as their foundation line.

JOE HOWELL GREYS: Origin: England.. Bloodlines: Tassel Grey Cock added 1900. Description: Light to dark Grey.

MISSOURI PACIFIC GREYS: Originator, Jack Dycus, Mo., approx. 1907. Bloodlines: Irish Grey, Joe Redmond Grey, Toppie Grey, Warhorse. Description: Dark Grey, dark green legs.

GREY DRAGON MUFFS: Originator, A. L. Shapmore, R. I. Description: 90 percent Muff.

GREY TORMENTORS: Originator, R. R. Raines, Ky. Bloodlines: Four greys, Grimble, Gordon, Ginn, Mortgage Lifter.

GREY SPEEDERS: Originator, E. E. Weller, N. Y. Bloodlines: Bohler Fair-Warhorse X Smoke Ball-Sangamingo Cock.

GINN GREY: Originator, S. A. Ginn, Ga. Description: Light silver Grey to white, red eyes, white and yellow legs, st. and pea comb, some Tassel.

CHAMPION GREYS: Originator, W. H. McCurdy, Ft. Payne, Ala., 1909. Bloodlines: Dark Grey Cock X one Ginn Grey hen,, Cock over daughters and inbred. Description, Grey, dark eyes and legs, st. comb.

HOLLAND GREYS: Originator, C. Holland, Vinemont, Ala. Bloodlines: Black Hennie Cock X Boone-Redmond hen and inbreeding. Description: Dark Grey, lead color legs, st. and pea comb, Grey and black eyes.

Law Greys

Around 1935-1936, Law named his fighitng Greys, Law Greys. In published fight club reports, he used to name his fighters, Canadian Greys. This was so he could remember that some of his fighters were Hanky Dean Greys, bred in Canada for Col. John Madigan. Law Greys were yellow and white legged. All were straight combed. They were the exact same blood as the Red Madigin Clarets.
The Law Greys were infused with O’Connel Albany (hen side) under a Madigan Grey cock. The yellow leg becoming more common with a white leg still expected. A later infusion of McNerney Greys solidified the predominance of yellow legs over the white. Law crossed these on a lot of his other good fowl and advertised and sold a lot of fowl.

A successful cross was the Law greys to Madigan’s Texas Rangers. These came dark legged. Therefore, if you have dark legged Law Greys and the trait is due to Law’s breeding and not some other breeder afterward. Some Boston Roundhead was also bred into some matings.

As cocker legends have it, those Law cocks would wander for a mile and DRAW another cock into them and snuff him of his living chicken. More than a bloody heel they had the DEATH HEEL, really strong hitting roosters.
Harold Brown Greys

Harrold Brown who originated Red Fox Farm and John O Fowler were partners and developed these gamefowl. The strain goes back to 1937 J.D. Perry called them perfect chickens as Post Oak perfected the fowl even further. Some come blue legged just like Harold Browns Red Fox Farm Greys or Post Oak Greys.
The Harold Brown Greys are also known as Silver Back, colored Greys in their Purity or simply called the Silver Greys.
They are an excellent as pure stock gamefowls that can withstand heavy inbreeding for years or used as a foundation for other crosses…when you have a foundation blood that can withstand long term inbreeding to maintain their purity without losing their vigor and other attributes, that shows how special this line of Greys truly are. These greys have the “THUMP” behind their blows, you can HEAR them cut their enemies. You will be proud to own a Harold Brown Grey as part of your gamefowl stock.
The Perfect Talisayin: Regular Greys

The Regular Grey is said to be a combination of three grey families: the Law Grey, the Sweater Grey and the Plainhead Muff Grey. These three excellent and proven foundation bloodlines were improved by Freddie Wimberly who received Colonel Madigans gamefowl who late in age gave them to Harrold Brown and John O Fowler and are the basis of the regular grey bloodline and genetics. The grey feathering is a dominant trait – and an excellent bird to cross with the Hatch or Albany. These crosses are for that problem bird in a line up against you.

Greys from E.W. Law and Sweater McGuiness were perfected by John O Fowler and Jerry Hughes.

Regular Greys come green legged, sometimes with yellow, silver duck wings and straight comb. They are medium to low-stationed and are known for power and gameness. Breeders note that they are as powerful and dead game as the Blueface Hatches. They will enhance any cross with other gamefowl, providing agility, dedication, and lighting fast speed. Because of the similarities between the Harold Brown and the Law Greys, you can combine them with other bloodlines or other Greys for genetic enhancement and stability of a strain. In action, the Regular Grey fight like the whirlwind, in the air or on the ground. Most decent gamefowl can and will be hitting his oponent but the Grey has the ability to cut deep being a power hitter, and not just strike his opponent. Other fighting fowl are not deep cutters, but when you get your hands on really proven line of Greys, you have a winner….whether the moon is full or not.
Secret Breeding Tech: Infusion of Grey blood to Maintain a Bloodline.

Cocking sages often say that inbreeding problems (like more regressive traits appearing in offspring), in your pure stock or red bloodlines can be solved via infusion with GREY blood (to the reds). To restore the bloodlines vitality after so many years of inbreeding the reds.

The Regular Grey is known for power and gameness and is a bloodline from a cross of three other superior stock of grey crosses. This is why infusion is a smart remedy because it can bring the new set of genes to somewhat rejuvenate and revitalize mental sharpness, health, and other traits of the inbred red family. It is one of the best-kept secrets among old school breeders but they don’t want to talk about it too much. Another reason why most gamefowl breeders of reds, strangely do not sell off their own Greys.

Other bloodline traditionalists, usually old timers who only fight with their own strains and seldom fought gamefowl that were crosses. These were dyed-in-the-wool line breeders (using an inbreeding system, or breeding crosses only with the same bloodline, using a specimen from another farm).

The gamefowl they pit are mostly uniform looking, and uniform fighting birds, nothing special. Cockers of this cloth will exalt and vouch for the purity and authenticity of their birds\’ bloodline as their standard for competition. Until other smarter cockers defeat their pure stock with smartly-crossed murdering gamefowl.

Smart cockers of old knew better, once they notice that their strain is losing vigor, an infusion of Grey blood into the reds will be their secret tech to bring the vigor back without changing their general physical conformation. Of course, this is done as discreetly as possible, because crosses are believed to ‘taint’ pure stock and undermine the breeders reputation as providers of pure bloodlines.

But today, there is no snobbery anymore as far as infusion of bloodlines into stock is concerned. If pure stock is indeed maintained, it is done so a base bloodline with its identifiable and known traits can be used for infusion to either maintain or improve another bloodline. An outstanding specimen of a pure breeding stock (free of fault) commands a premium price to serious breeders. A pureblood sire bull cock can fetch up to a hundred thousand dollars while significantly less for any of his brothers. Serious gamefowl hobbyists are willing to pay the price to acquire the bull cock.

Crossing a pure grey cock to the red hens will produce all greys (1/2 grey, 1/2 red in pedigree), both males and females. Breeding back the grey offspring stags to the red hens wil give both reds and greys stags and pullets. The resulting genotype will be pure red although they are 1/4 grey 3/4 reds in their pedigree. Thus, the infusion introduces new blood but does not dilute the core genetic bloodline to an extent that it becomes a different fighting cock altogether.
The Fabled Grey / Kelso Cross


Like the Sweater Grey, the Grey Kelso is one of the newer strains that promise awesome fighting prowess in the pit. Combining power hitting, gameness, fighting smarts like weaving and side-stepping and NOT jumping up to meet an attacker but waiting for him to land then launching its own air attack, the Grey Kelso is an improvement of the two strains, with the Grey as the dominant genotype of the two.